Theres very little Scripture in sermons. Its totally untenable but yet I have seen so many in high positions double dip or even have businesses on the side that enrich them even more. There is definitely something missing in this entire scenario. Yes marketing is creating more customers, and increased investment in distribution helps to deliver the product and access to more markets; but a shifting of resource allocation and cost-cutting measures are needed. 20-25 hours might involve something like translating the passage out of the original language, maybe? It evolved; a culture developed around it; rules and regulations; holidays and celebrations; the yearly church calendar; working people could show up, pay up, and leave; eventually the CEO posted a job roster for the volunteers; duties and titles; gender roles; power and access became linked to donated money; book$ and conference$ and web$ite$ and broadcast$; celebrity and status; trips and missions and safaris; etc. The academy usually complies with the doctrine of the Church that supports it. You are the church. He wont sacrifice financially. Our friends are grounded, thoughtful and medically qualified; and not remotely given to sensationalism or exaggeration. And while Im at it, Ive been on enough church building projects to know that buildings and public meetings arent necessarily blessings. Count me among those who spent years spinning my wheels until I figured out I disagreed with David (what a concept! Theres always beauty in a cushy paycheck. Nor do they ever get any deeper. I dont know whether the church rents out the parking lot for profit or provides some or all spaces for free. Most people happen to believe that a pastor should be more than a podcast on legs. And yet theyre the very people we should be hearing about, because they are setting an example worth following. I don't think he has a speech impediment. Many of my friends from Gospel Glitterati churches invited me to the conferenceso glad I declined and did not give a penny to them. Why are we so downright stupid? So many turn to sermon services and hide in their offices reading books or doing anything else but writing their sermon. Well just have to agree to disagree. Their disregard for anything outside their circle was heartbreaking. There is no such thing as a teaching pastor in scripture. I believe they prevailed. Dee, I really like this post, as I used to work at St. Thomas, an Episcopal Church across the street from McLean Bible. Heres one thats guaranteed to make my progressive brothers and sisters recoil in horror and get their boxers and panties in a dither every time: They must have gone in in laparoscopically. Local believers who had plenty sharing personally with other local believers who had need? elastigirl wrote: So why do we continue supporting this made up role? Ive never seen this in scripture. He would make a great traveling speaker, which is what he was before he came to Brook Hills. I learned recently that these titles are very important in that world. This is odd to me. Like your husband, I am deeply touched when a pastor knows my name & uses it in a kind way. The worst, to me, is that much of this is NOT ministry. Thanks for chiming in! Some churches in my area have a Farmers Market on weekends in their parking lot. one person i talked to went to so far as to say we cant allow this, or else our tax-exempt status would be jeopardized. .The idea that the person doing the preaching must be the same person doing the ministering is really born of later parish systems, not the New Testament text. Im not gonna convince you, and you aint gonna persuade me. Membership Covenants I do believe I read somewhere about how can they believe in Him of whom they have not heard, and how can they hear without a preacher, and how can they preach except they be sent That sure sounds like witnessing to me. He has written several books, including Something Needs to Change and Radical. There is something missing here. So I went and prayed, then listened to his latest sermon and once again I was reminded possibly by the Holy Spirit how anointed this man is. Or mainly? I can remember on pastor in my lifetime that handled the role fairly well, but Ive known others who truly were pastors. All this flies under the radar. I look forward to reading what she has to say about the sexual abuse coverup in the church her ex-husband, Joshua was senior pastor. David Platt states that he spends 20-25 hours preparing for one sermon. But, I try to see every person who comes to me as a long lost brother or sister. That is a huge plus for the elders there, I imagine. sign a covenant with! Its like a code for the party apparatus, comrade. This feeding of the flock is via the Word of God and given out with a piece of oneself. This is a predicate. and the Academy is supposed to serve the Church. WebBecause God was with Moses then no impediment, real or imagined, would stand in Gods way. These pastors faithfully execute the responsibilities of their jobs, but those who so desire can carve out a fairly cushy lifestyle as a pastor. I think there is more going on. When I had (open) abdominal surgery 10 years ago (perforated diverticulitis), it took me a whole month before I could get back to work and seriously restricted diet. @Richard- MBC@ Richard Norman: Joined a lovely little church which felt like family the moment I walked in the door. So while I dislike Platts platitudes in general, Ive no problem with him supply preaching for the church. My guess is theres some bigger strategy going on. and he doesnt commit to funerals and all flowers had to comply with their flower policy. Im fine with paying staff, pastors, etc, but dont insist theres a New Testament mandate for the paid career program we see. United prayer, therefore, requires that the one for whom we pray be looking away from us to the Lord Jesus Christ, and we together look to Him alone (1), respectfully, as you anticipate heavenly things, make every effort to be found at peace with The Lord Jesus, and that pressing towards being without spot or blemish, growing in the grace and knowledge of our Savior Jesus Christ. Presented by a city councilman and including several city engineers. Never did. If we hope to reveal the worth of Gods love to others, what has it cost us? Who will pay the cost as a revelation of the worth of Gods love? olks, find a church in which you have a real pastor, not a talking head who offers nothing different than a podcast Find a pastor who knows your names and will come and sit with you when you are in the hospital. What I would say is, if they ever find the perfect church network, they shouldnt join it because theyll spoil it. He speaks at the Southern Baptist Convention I usually dread listening to missionaries speak, anticipating the guilt trip that they sometime put on other people for not being as extreme and missional and sacrificial as them. Its the most important part of the Baptist church, in the eyes of many. I dont believe we are fed on Sunday morning in some special way. A lot of replies sound speculative . I do think that it is a poor idea to have a teaching pastor who doesnt know her or his flock, as I agree with Bridget that pastors should be driven by the Spirit to attend to the needs of the congregation. Those who know Christ (theo) best are better suited to ministry, not those who know sinners (socio) best. Vs 14 God says I know He Aaron can speak very well obviously God knew that Moses did have some legit problem with speech like stuttering. Do we then marginalize the spiritually handicapped after weve sold them the uniform white, conforming to you, mass produced bread? Does everything have to be done according to the Bible? This is one of the things my church actually makes a concerted effort to doopen the facilities throughout the week to various groups. Not screaming like his passengers. I tried real hard to laugh about it. He will show up on Sunday morning and preach about 30 or so weeks in the year. My problem with the tax breaks for churches and staff is they dont want government intrusion but then want to keep special exemptions. My own mother has preached in the pulpit a time or two, or three. Could you quote me some specific passages on that? It took long enough! After reading your comments I was deeply discouraged, wow this man must be seriously egotistical and really has no heart for the church body. He feeds the one that gnaws him most.. I cannot question it if its really Gods call for him. Flash forward about 20 years. Thus, the model in the New Testament is shared leadership. @ refugee: God can better direct a moving object than one that is stationary I think that last bit is important. * But that is in keeping with his I sacrifice and live in the bad part of town for the gospel even though I travel all the time and so only my family really has to endure living there from day to day.. Of course, a lot of people in their church have no idea their pastor has somebody else write their sermons and they dont go elsewhere very often, so they wouldnt realize it. He was preaching at this annual thing called The Northern Mens Convention in Manchester although I dont know what the subject was. The Church gathered to worship is a witness that God indwells His people. The model in the New Testament was shared leadership. Youre modeling New Testament now? Having been in SBC churches for 20 years, I can honestly say that most megachurch sermons are shallow and quite devoid of teaching of Scripture. It looks like it to me. We minister unto the LORD. Zechzav wrote: However, I do think it represents something about care and compassion of the sheep and knowing them by name. Many in the radical reformation rejected that idea as unbiblical. People want to belong, Sneak-Peek: R U Representing Christ, Perhaps?. I have a list of questions, maybe some information from the impacted group, a Reason for Outage, problem tickets and that sort of thing to work from, and I dont spend that much time. Hopefully I can soon find a way out. He demonstrates his attitude that he can dress down for Sunday service. Stomach full of staples for another week, but back to work with a few restrictions. They are very thoughtful about these sorts of things, actually. I very much agree that many Christians do this quite well without drawing attention to themselves do you mean positional recognition? So, again, how is this guy spending 20-25 hours a week on a sermon? ADA Only You Jesus Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. Acts 2:41, NKJV. We are disgusted that its gone neo-Cal and SBC. First thought is David Platt misses having a large live audience every week. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MdQINUBlPno But those things are not what they are hired to do in megachurches. Being hired to spend your week writing sermons and you lie about it and let someone else write them. Of course, were they to turn it into a profit center and start renting it out for profit, thatd be different, but nothing in the tax code stops them from performing a community service like that. You are one of the lucky ones if you can see through him. His view was that too many immature Christians are going overseas and they cause lots of problems. I do it for my housebound parents on Wed. May you be richly blessed. Im sure the new name for the SBC has already been determined because Southern and Baptist and Convention is not going to work. Can someone explain to me how you can spend 20-25 hours a week preparing a sermon? If we then love God we will/should obey God, or so Jesus said regarding himself. The bread is indicative of the Bread of Life, and the lighted candlestick indicates someones home the presence of the Holy Spirit. Then they purchased the Wildlife Federation building and mega-sized the already mega church. If it is only value-added, the world will view us as self-interested and just another organization of created things bent in upon itself. Prediction: I bet he resigns from the IMB and this is the first step to getting his ducks in a row. This leaves the door wide open for our congregation to see areas of leadership where they are needed, and to respond accordingly.. Rumor has it that the IMB is super mucked up financially. I dont know if they have similar laws in Australia, the churches there appear to have the same penchant for the title. @wartwatch @ThouArtTheMan Would be interesting to see the pay-per-view history from the NAMB guys staying in those rooms. C. J. Mahaney was a promoter of toxic Calvinism for years and look what happen to those who were fed a steady diet of it at his SGM churches. If Im not mistaken, K. Deyoung is also a competitive masters runner. Because healthy community is missional. In many of them, and also non-denoms, they are both shallow AND long. (2) The born-again experience: i.e. Dont know. How is that in any way a thing?! Catching a celebrity pastor is the latest craze amongst growing churches with money an whoe leadership is seeking prestige. It seems perfectly obvious to me that He wants more when it comes to eternity than just hanging around and thinking pleasant thoughts, so to speak. Most pastor positions are salaried. Much of the sermon is basic storytelling. The real eternal issue before us is not some form of Calvinism, but Christ! Paul, on the other hand, addresses pastoring in practicing detail, in some of the epistles. Quite a change in 20 years. We do need to do both seek the LORD, seek the lost. I think we see a lot of cases where pastors shy away from becoming friends with the people in their church. This leaves the door wide open for our congregation to see areas of leadership where they are needed, and to respond accordingly.". Whenever I feel ashamed to be a Southern Baptist because of the reputation and antics of these snake oil salesmen, I have to remind myself that they are clearly NOT Southern Baptiststhey have only ridden on the coat tails of the SBC to seize fame and fortune. Those words are astonishing to anyone whos been around the SBC for years. why are we surprised when we attract to that position those who are nothing more than entrepreneurial CEOs, vapid, idiotic motivational speakers, and little kings and God-haters who demand submission? Our collective gathering together has far more impact than the individual can judge from our own vantage point. That is it. Thats all it is. Yeah, I have had to have church at home on three different occasions in life. I was furious but also too new to the church and too scared to call him out on it. The Tron, and others (some of which are known to me directly) are looking for the perfect church network. If not we are just setting up idols. Is he doing word studies on every single Greek word? He had an 8 week hiatus in July and August, nice work if you can get it. Here is a cautious, rather underwhelming, statement from the trustees att the IMB : Our president, Dr. David Platt, has expressed a deep sense of calling to serve as Incidentally, in the spirit of holding fast to that which is good, Ill choose to remember David Platt for his superb goal for England against Belgium in the 1990 World Cup finals in Italy: And why didnt Jesus, His Disciples, and His Apostles, make the big bucks and the lives of the rich and famous as we see witnessed today with the great evangelists, preachers and teachers of our day? Again, I have no earthly clue why anyone would think its a good idea to take a word, pastor which appears only once in the singular in the entire New Testament, and then only fourth in a list of five giftings useful for the church, a word that is not explicitly defined in the Bible in terms of role, and make up a meaning for it out of whole cloth, defined as he one head person to be the primary teacher and CEO of a fellowship, big or small, to whom all, if push comes to shove, must ultimately submit. Im all over the continuum insofar as views go. And the buzz word missional has taken over their thought process. Both should be evident, though. Yes, my experience and sentiments exactly. Thanks for asking . Hi GSD, Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. Acts 2:41, NKJV Even if he mostly avoids distractions from pesky parishioners and students, and mostly recycles and repackages his content, theres still unavoidable meeting time with the church staff who tend the flock, grad assistants who grade the papers, TGC comrades, researchers, editors, publishers etc. Could you comment on that? Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments and what were his commandments if not both love God and neighbor and also go ye into all the world . Not a clue. Thanks, very insightful from your experience with boots on the ground. Perhaps David Platt can get some pointers from Kevin DeYoung. Lol. . The building which was on the tax rolls is now removed causing a decrease in the tax base and higher taxes for others. Im astonished this is not the done thing, at least in my town. The upper room in Jerusalem at Pentecost held a whole bunch of people and is unlikely to have been just somebodys parlor. God is interested in and respects what we think, our initiative, our ideas, our plans, our decisions Paul preached in the open, in a rented room, in synagogues, and in writing while on house arrest. And one more thing. Please keep up the good study. Whats up with this? And Platt would be doing the job he was hired to do and the Trustees would be doing their jobs as well. Theyre a kind of corporate lone ranger Christian (as the saying goes), having abandoned assembling together with anyone else locally, albeit trying to find some kind of belonging somewhere. It would seem that Paul is drawing attention to those who perform their offices well. WebHearing Aid & Speech Issues Explored. Im not so sure God is so worried about all our acronyms..SBC, IMB, etc Is not our mission unity in love Making disciples, preaching the word to all nations? How differently the Word would be preached if nobodys mortgage depended on tickling itching ears? I also have an active prayer closet and know how to use it. Standing up on a stage, being the only voice heard in a comfortably organised setting where everyone is explicitly there to hear you speak, is among the most seductively intoxicating pleasures anywhere in this life. McLean Bible Church was obviously looking for a high profile name to be their teaching pastor. The shared leadership not taking full-time pay checks from their fellow believers, perhaps? God designed us for community. Bet it was said with a disarming smile. They (501-c3 religious entities) want all the benefits (infrastructure, free speech protections) of a progressive democracy under the rule of law, but none of the responsibilities. I asked if anyone had any word on new and promising upcoming middle of the road candidates for the next election because I did not have time right now to research them myself. Im sure they could help. I think there is a place for leadership at these larger churches. She would send me links and all kinds of stuff and say she swears it is all linked together somehow with these guys. I cant think of any big names in the UK but that doesnt matter there are plenty of gifted people within local churches. Isnt all scripture is inspired by God ad profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness in order to do good works (2 Tim 3:17-8)? Or insipid video series made by the pastors wife/youth group/whatever? I wanted to remain in that role. 14, that will be my last Sunday at Brook Hills, and then well begin to shift totally after that.. Rather than whole-wheat flour with all its bran and uneven texture, enriched bleached white flour makes a uniform product and its cheaper and plentiful from corporate granaries that have their own juggernaut marketing and distribution channels. Whenever I feel ashamed to be a Southern Baptist because of the reputation and antics of these snake oil salesmen, I have to remind myself that they are clearly NOT Southern Baptiststhey have only ridden on the coat tails of the SBC to seize fame and fortune. When I went to the CBE conference in Florida recently, we had communion and the person serving me communion said Julie Anne, this is the Body of Christ. Now, of course, it wasnt as special as Bills because this woman didnt know me except from the weekend, but I noticed how personal it felt. Smyth has preached 20 out of a possible 35 Sundays since he was hired! Personally, this is sad because we have a long-ago connection to McLean Bible. This is not to argue against paid staff but it should certainly argue for much more humility than what is often demonstrated. I did a little research of John Folmar, my ex-pastor in Dubai, in 2013, the year I quit. I dont remember exactly who was there, but I remembered wondering how they could fill their other responsibilities and who was footing the bill. When he was three my son once told a woman in the checkout line that I once threw him like a football. The emphasis was on have to have not whether the person in the pulpit was a man or a woman. Once the bible (or more specifically what some people try to do with the bible} is treated as simply a different version of the old Jewish idea of law and thus turned into a burden too heavy to bear-then we can quote Jesus himself about the fact that creating burdens like that is a big time no-no. So if it is the means then why are people upset when Platt says that people need to get with it regarding the means? I appreciate so much the need for discernment and advocating for victims, but I dont see any crimes here, just a lot of fault finding where there really doesnt seem to be any fault. Im a liberal lefty too, and I think its high time to revamp the tax codes so that the loopholes are closed and that all non-profits (religious or no) must abide by the same rules. Say to the cities of America, Believe in Jesus Christ and be saved! We called a man (we were SBC)to preach. Fear strikes at the hearts of the men of the NAMB. Evidently the title lead pastor gives them street cred for moving up in the movement. Im afraid Lon wanted out and this was the easy road. What their job is, without exception, is pastoring a church for expats. If a merger is in the works (someone at SBC Today suggested that might be the case and was chided by a writer at SBCVoices for writing it which made me think its true) Ezell seems like the likely candidate. But what is he doing? It is also a biological code. I remember folks telling me to never attend the last Sunday morning service because he loves to ramble on waaaay over time since he doesnt have to worry about the next service. I like the idea that, should I actually need real pastoral care at some point, it will be an option. What a relief. A Proverbial Shortcut To Mushrooms, Perhaps?, I think we should get off the road (1), Lon knows quite clearly that the people of McLean Bible Church dont throw stones, Spy Mahaney.) Naturally, then, they must compete against other bloggers for market-share. Just today he seems to throw a jab at Paige Patterson. Both should be evident, though. Prediction: he will come on board full time within a year. The main trend Ive seen over the past 20 years or so is that the Calvinist/Non-Calvinist divide at the top of the SBC does not seem to be an issue. Yes mission is important but it is the means, not the end. As I think its all going NGO working with the UN and Feds for some of the billions out there. Please dont tell me that Lon believes in Calvanismwould break my heart. Almost all words have their origins in the verb forms. . They actually have a very limited impact. Cue the choking voice and near tears as he passionately tells his church of all the Nepalese dying without hearing the Gospel. Meeting in homes instead of large church buildings? They care about as much about the Bible as they do about the truth, about justice, about the Fruits of the Spirit, about Jesus, and about those who have been made in His image. They must have gone in in laparoscopically. I think the title of pastor has lost its meaning. I think there is more going on. I have heard so much drivel from the pulpits over the years that they probably wont even have to use formaldehyde, or whatever, on my body; the drivel will be enough preservative. Again, I ask, what exactly makes anyone think their fellowship is somehow going to do it better that the most humble man in the history of the world? I get what youre saying, but people in regular jobs can be run out by one person who doesnt like them. As does C H Spurgeon, the author of the quote. I also think its something all Christians should aspire toward, though I do believe all Christians are equal priests in a priesthood lead by Jesus. Heres the line he gave then when questioned about the issue: http://www.bpnews.net/43260/www.bpnews.net/43240/cooperation-central-to-platts-vision-at-imb. As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with Devers viewpoint on this subject. And on top of that, we do not get paid for taking care of my mother with dementia and her other health problems, my grandbaby with special and high time consuming needs, or trying to battle against the babys father who pretended to be a Christian and now has threatened to kill my daughter and take the baby to Fiji where his family lives and his father is a pastor of a church there. If I want to just listen to a sermon I can do that online. We made funerals and weddings church events when they never were in Bible times. When Jesus said that He would build His church and said that the Spirit would come, but failed to mention a new book of laws, I guess He just lost His perspective there for a bit? He is doing exactly this! Yes, if nothing else I wonder how much of a burden these self-acclaimed superman leaders put on the rest of us who cannot seem to do as much as they do. Whats wrong for you may be right for another believer and vice versa. While he did pastor churches in his twenties, once he launched his Evangelism ministry he never again pastored a church, even though almost any church would have offered him any deal he wanted, because he knew he could not be an Evangelist and a Pastor without shortchanging the church he was supposed to be pastoring. We always sit in the back and still do. As a variation on the theme, ISTM that they want to be honoured as gurus without growing into functioning role-models. Why are we surprised at those results when were flat begging for them? I dont understand the appeal in attending something like that. Whos We? By loving them we glorify God because God is love. MBC needs to pray for discernment and examine Davids teachings. If one is to fulfill the requirements of love, then it is not enough that God loves us but we must also love God, the first and greatest commandment. Yes, there is a great distinction here. My Word as precedence comes from conviction that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. I am saddened that you have heard nothing new from the pulpit in years. David Platt (ThM, PhD, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary) is the pastor-teacher of McLean Bible Church, founder of Radical, and a Council member of The Gospel Coalition. Theyre not, but thats not really the point here. Plus, it has been my experience, that while this is way overly simplistic, there seems to two kinds of people: 1. Anointed preaching/proclamation is a big part of this witness. @ Nick Bulbeck: When he recently encountered a young man who stutters at a Keene, My church now has quite short sermons, with liturgy. Please, I prepped lesson plans for 6 math classes per day (4 different grade levels) in way, way, way less time than that! I mean, I dont have a problem with using commentaries and resources to help plan a sermon. Going back to the comments about receiving Communion. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=llNnlE6Hbuc. If you are in Christ and have the Holy Spirit, then you ARE a witness and an ambassador. 4). Paul instructed Timothy to give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching (1 Tim 4:13); to take pains with these things, be absorbed in them, to pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching, and persevere in these things. (Not that I think that is important but since the writer harps on that I just thought Id mention it.) The Church is there to train us, teach us. It was an emergency appendectomy, but we got to the hospital fast and it had not ruptured. He has bigger things to do. IMB deserves a full time, fully engaged chief executive. Stomach full of staples for another week, but back to work with a few restrictions. It certainly wasn't dealing with parents extreme mental illness for 30 years, health problems of both sets of departed parents raising my sister when we had a new baby and the teenage junk she put us thu, it certainly wasn't when my husband lost the use of arm to a accident and spent a year at p.t , it certainly wasn't when my accident caused me a bum leg and I still do my housework dragging it around. "At Grace Church, there are three things and ONLY three things that I do: I meet with the staff/apprentices, I preach about 70% of the time, and I lead a small group in my home. My pastor learning my name and making a point to speak it in kindness is part of the thoughtful, welcoming aspect that I enjoy in my church. What a perfect way to capture the video presenter multi-site phenomenon. And when it goes badly we want to blame the clergy for not being Jesus to us. They plan on filling his role with members speaking and an occasional pastor from another related church. I spend 7-10 hours studying Gods word and I am not preparing a sermon. This week we will focus on Rashis explanation. You are correct if one finds a 501(c)3 church establishment which has all the makings/trappings of being a place where one man is apparently in charge, this is certainly not a true biblical representation of a local body of Christ.
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